Women are not to assume the office of teacher in the church.(1 Cor. 14:34) Women may teach, as long as they do not usurp the place of authority and leadership of men in the church.(1 Timothy 2:12) Older women are specifically entrusted withe teaching younger women.(Titus 2:3-5) The injunction(of 1 Timothy 2:12) is based on the relationship of man and woman in the original creation.

The Bible is clear that homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of God(1 Corinthians 6:9). If we are told not to associate with anyone who calls himself a Christian but is sexually immoral, it doesn't make sense to ordain him as a priest.

God also hates divorce, and only sanctions remarriage when the spouse dies. Pastors are to be husbands of one wife(literally translated as "one-wife husband," above reproach, and of good reputation with those outside of the church (1 Timothy 3). Since divorce is prohibited, it is doubtful that a divorcee can be ordained and fulfill these roles.

Dennis, perhaps I wasn't clear. Jesus does not make any comments on homosexuality. My point, however, is that this conversation of excusing homosexuality, and then allowing homosexuals in church leadership positions would have been absurd. Also, are you backing up your "follow Jesus, not Paul" argument with a statement made by Paul? That seems a little counterintuitive.

Sam Mahlstadt: please specify the passage(s) where Jesus speaks against homosexuals?

General to all:
Question 1: what is the common denominator of the three groups specified?

Question 2: are we CHRISTian, or PAULine?

Question 3: how can homosexuals be considered any less fit to serve, when in the Acts of the Apostles (10:28), Peter specifically says, "God hath shewed me that I should not call ANY man common or unclean." (KJV, emphasis mine)

It is sad to me that we seem to consider our personal opinions of equal value to Gods Word!! We really must base our standard on Gods truth if we want to call ourselves christian!!

I think ordaining women is a no-brainer personally. We live in a different social context than that of Paul's "women don't speak in church" where now, it is socially accepted in leadership roles. I think Paul even wrestled with this as he wrote about great leaders who were women.
Divorce is also a tricky one, as Jesus had some pretty harsh words for those who were getting divorced just because it was legalized. hmmm. I do believe that those who have gone through a divorce, and who's hearts are right should be able to be ordained.
Homosexuals, however, no. I don't see how a homosexual (practicing) can lead a congregation while they are currently living in what the Scripture calls a sin. I know, I know, we all live in sin, and some pastors live in sexual sin (lust, etc.). Do I dare say, "this is different"?
Living as a practicing homosexual is to say that it is okay, and God somehow understands, even though he calls it a sin - straight up. This to me, can be equated with me going around and sleeping with whomever as I lead a congregation - it is straight up a sin. Are homosexuals the same as whores, no - but both are sexual sins, and shouldn't be allowed to lead.
It's funny to how people say that Jesus never said anything against homosexuals, but in 1st century Israel, this conversation would be unbelievable. I guess we will have some more interesting ones after this gets voted on. I see, Justin, you are not voicing an opinion - is this because the decision has not been made by the denomination or are you just staying out of the way of your own question? :)

True. No one is perfect. That's why we use the word of God to help us live our lives in Christ. It's our blueprint to live a true life, the best we can. It's not ME deciding a certain person has sinned, or shouldn't be married. God makes it clear in His word. It doesn't matter what we think is fair or not fair. If we are doing our best as Christians to live by His word- then we do our best to obey what it says.

I'm wondering if you're starting this conversation in anticipation of the ELCA's (Evangelical Lutheran Church in America) big vote coming up at the convention (Aug. 17th-21st). This vote would allow gay clergy to be introduced in all the Lutheran churches associated with the ELCA, which would involve HOPE. Comparing Gay and Lesbian clergy to Women and Divorced Clergy, is sort of like apples and oranges, right? I mean God never said that being divorced or a woman is an "ABOMINATION." I know, call me old-fashioned.

So, what's your thoughts on this JWise?

Ask me on August 18th.

I did you one better...it's the 19th.

So what are your personal thought about the vote and what was voted on this weekend?

I think that openly gay men/women should not be ordained as pastors. God intended for marriage to reflect the way our relationship with him is from the very beginning. How can a pastor lead a congregation of followers into relationship with the Lord, if they do not understand how God has ordained our relationships/marriages?

I fully believe though that women and divorced people should be able to be ordained ministers. (so i don't have @mishmelle after me :) )

He has called us into relationship...period.