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Can You Vote for Obama?

October 27th, 2008 Posted in Aside, Church, Politics

Can you vote for Obama? Brett McCracken can’t. He cites a Princeton professor in part of his explanation why, “Barack Obama is the most extreme pro-abortion candidate ever to seek the office of President of the United States. He is the most extreme pro-abortion member of the United States Senate. Indeed, he is the most extreme pro-abortion legislator ever to serve in either house of the United States Congress…” What about you? Is this issue a deal-breaker for you? A deal-maker?

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    Great question, I've been debating this one for awhile. On one hand, I think Obama will be the better president, but of course, I don't agree with his morals. I also am unsure on the role our president really has in this issue. Bush was pro-life, but what did he do to reverse Roe v. Wade? What has any president done regarding this issue? I don't think any president will touch this issue with a ten-foot pole. So, to that end, I think I could vote for Obama, but probably won't based on his tax plans and health care plans.
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    It is a deal breaker for me. The abortion issue may not qualify somebody in my mind, but it certainly does disqualify a candidate.
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    Can and WILL vote for Obama.

    The government has no right to dictate my medical care based upon religious beliefs, no matter what. And, for the record, I find it interesting to note that McCain's compassion for a newborn does not extend to guaranteeing it health insurance.
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    @Katy This isn't necessarily a religious arguement, it's more based on when life begins. Christians aren't the only who believe it begins at conception :)
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    I am sad to say that much of what that Princeton professor refers to is a terrible distortion of Obama's actual views and record. Particularly distorted are his claims about Obama voting to deprive infants of medical care. In this specific case, Obama simply voted against a terrible bill that would have simply restated that doctors must provide care to infants, as they are already required to do. Obama is absolutely, 100% against infanticide and I'm very offended by the smears against him on this issue. (more info is available here: http://fightthesmears.com/articles/15/wildaccus...)

    Obama also opposed legislation which would ban partial birth abortions because there were no provisions whatsoever for the health of the mother. I'm sorry, but I am not willing to say that a woman must accept a death sentence simply because her abortion is classified as "partial birth."

    As far as the infamous quote about Obama not wanting his daughters to be "punished with a baby" I think that his point was terribly misinterpreted. I think it should be clear that he was responding to those who frame teen pregnancy as if it were a punishment for those who are irresponsible. Clearly, a man who chose to father two young daughters doesn't see children as a punishment.

    The fact is when you compare the two candidates, bar none, Barack Obama will do more to reduce abortions than John McCain. He does believe that abortion is wrong, but it is obvious that there is no one, simple solution to stopping it from happening. Therefore, Barack Obama supports better, comprehensive sex-ed programs in the schools, expanded access to education for the poor, better health care for children and families, and general prevention of abortion.

    John McCain does not support the programs that will prevent abortion and simply does not have any authority to make it illegal. If he attempts to pack the courts in order to overturn Roe v. Wade, he would set a dangerous standard for the type of litmus test that Americans have always rejected in similar situations.

    The real question here is "Do you want a president who will reduce the number of abortions, or do you want someone who claims to be against abortion, but will do nothing to stop it?"

    So, of course, I'll be voting for Obama.
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    It's funny, because some people actually believe that reducing the number of abortions is the same as being pro-life.

    Wrong. The pro-life stance is specifically for the illegalization of abortion. We cannot justify keeping abortion legal just so we can reduce the numbers and keep them safe; using that logic, we could make drugs legal and control the selling of drugs and minimalize substance abuse. We do not make laws based on minimalizing the effects of bad things; we make laws based on what is right or wrong.

    In conclusion, abortion is not a moral issue: it is a rights issue.

    Chadley
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    Chadley, that's not entirely true. Sometimes we do "make laws based on minimalizing the effects of bad things." In fact there are a number of countries which have reduced the overall use of drugs by allowing it to be legal and shaping the laws to prevent their use. If we minimized the negative effects of drug use on individual users and on society, is this not a legitimate strategy when we find that criminalization isn't working?

    Mind you, I say this as someone who has never used illegal drugs, including marijuana, in my life and abhors them.

    Now, how is it not pro-life to say "looking at the facts, we should drastically reduce the number of abortions in a pragmatic way that will actually make a difference?" I don't think someone who ignores pragmatic solutions to reduce abortions is pro-life.

    In regards to whether abortion is a moral issue or a rights issue, it is most certainly both. It is also extremely complex in both areas. It is not enough to say that the embryo/fetus/child/potential has the right to life and ignore the fact that a mother who cannot legally seek an abortion, right or wrong, is being required by her government to take on certain burdens in giving birth to a child within her body.

    What I appreciate so much about Obama is that he is not interested in oversimplifying these issues.
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    I should add, I don't necessarily think that it is unreasonable for a mother to accept the burden of giving birth to a child, but I do think that any person who believes that the embryo/fetus/child/potential has the right to life should also realize that there is a trade-off between this right and the rights of the mother. Maybe not an unreasonable one, but it's still a trade-off nonetheless and the arguments should be made with this in mind. Disregarding these rights will not win any points for those who call for the criminalization of abortion.
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    its a much bigger issue than this - pro-life is so much bigger than doing away with abortion... pro-life means a basic respect for humanity at ALL stages of life, including children without health care, people losing their houses and jobs, women making less than their male counterparts for the same work, hearing loss that could be prevented with simple antibiotics and basic health care for all - not to mention the intentional taking of life in the name of justice that we call the death penalty - which costs way more than simple life imprisonment... all of that to say either an always yes or an always no answer is overly-simplistic and lacks nuance of any kind.

    fwiw, abortion is a medical procedure - there are times when it is, regretfully, necessary... times when the choice really is between losing one life or losing two... and there are times when children are victimized that to continue a pregnancy would cause further victimization... its really not a simple issue - that's what i liked about Obama's answer to the question on the debate - he demonstrated an understanding of the complexities involved...

    i am pro-life - i am NOT anti-abortion... the two are not synonymous
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    Well I did vote for Obama and I feel very good about it. I really don't understand one issue voters but I know and love some so I'll shush.
    Donald Miller, author and spokesperson for "Believers for Barack" recently spoke about this issue. It's a simple statement but one I agree with.

    "I am a pro-life voter, but do not believe John McCain’s plan on the issue will work. McCain’s only stand on the issue has been a recent switch to a pro-life position, and a promise to continue the attempt to criminalize abortion through the Supreme Court.I believe this is an empty promise, and anybody who understands our judicial system would know this. Chief Justice John Roberts of the Supreme Court (our most conservative Judge, many feel, and the pro-lifers greatest hope for the plan to criminalize abortion) has stated that Roe V. Wade “is the law of the land” and has been backed up in precedent by the Casey case. He does not believe it is plausible to overturn both rulings. Of course it is possible, but it would take a judicial miracle and the appointment of even more conservative, activist judges. This is the only way the overturning of Roe V. Wade will happen. The continuation of rhetoric about being pro-life but not having a realistic plan has tired me of the Republican Party. As more and more evangelicals walk away, I hope Republicans will stop giving lip-service to this important issue. My hope is they will realize they are going to lose more and more votes until they are willing to engage in a bipartisan effort to make progress with comprehensive legislation that is realistic and actual.

    The Democrats have proposed comprehensive legislation called the 95/10 initiative that aims to reduce the number of abortions that take place in this country by 95% within 10 years. While Barack Obama is a pro-choice candidate, he supports this and similar legislation. This is the only proposed and realistic strategy that can move us around the cultural impasse that is breathing hate and anger into the Christian community.

    While Barack Obama opposes late-term abortions, he has made promises to the National Organization or Women to make progress in a woman’s right to chose. I wish Obama were more strong on this issue. Still, I do feel he will accomplish more than John McCain, as John McCain has only recently taken this position and offers no legislation and no plan.

    This is a very debatable issue. There are facts on both sides that seem to refute any argument made. But I have had to do the research and take a position and, for now, this is my position."
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    Here is what I am struggling with -

    My wife recently received a phone call from a family member who expressed great concern because we have decided to vote for Obama. She said she loved us and wanted us to realize the truth - that Obama is an evil, evil man. She wanted to ask us how we can stand in front of God and justify voting for a murderer. She went on to say that nothing hurts God more than murdering babies

    Wow.

    First off, I'm not so sure that was done in "love" as she mentioned it was. Secondly, who are we to decide what is on God's heart most? Where in the bible does it say abortion is the most important issue to God?

    Please read this statement - I do not support abortion and God is not for ending life. However, how can one justify it is the killing babies is most on God's heart when we read in Exodus that he killed all the first born sons in Egypt?! Why this happened I cannot explain. I don't get God sometimes (most times actually)...but the bible says it happened.

    When I hear conservative evangelicals talk about the sanctity of human life it makes me want to throw up. What they really mean is the sanctity of an unborn child. What about the sanctity of ALL HUMAN LIFE. Including the down trodden, the widows, the orphans, the oppressed. What about the sanctity of life of those being slaughtered in Darfur and in Iraq. Are they less important than an unborn child?

    I do not consider myself a democrat, but as a Christian I feel so used by the Republican party. It feels like they just throw Christians a couple bones to chew on every election year (i.e. abortion and gay marriage). Christians eat them up and give them their votes - then nothing ever changes. It also seems like they throw us they issues to cover the fact that most of their economic issues are biblically questionable at best.

    The End.
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    Justin - I wish my blog readers were as cool as yours :(

    http://paulstewart.typepad.com/endangeredfaith/...

    Dave - I also am pro-life, and I too am sick and tired of the Republican party using this issue to grab votes and doing absolutely nothing to reduce the number of abortions in this country. I am also tired of people talking about being pro-life but being perfectly content to ignore the 30,000 chidren under five that die of preventable disease every day or the 27 million children trapped in human slavery. As a follower of Christ, I must care for ALL life. (to clarify, I am disgusted by Obama’s voting record on abortion, but I also believe McCain is going to do absolutely nothing to solve this issue).
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    A quick answer to the question. Yes.

    I do not support or believe in abortion. All life is sacred. That being said, it is ridiculous for Christians to preach as though they know who "God's choice" is.

    The Bible proclaims that all governmental leaders have been put in place by God. This includes the evil leaders of Jesus' time. If Christians believe that God is in control, why do so many feel the need to spread hate and fear to convince people to vote for "God's choice". Doesn't that make him a small "g" god? Do you actually think God is going to be surprised by who wins the election in 5 days?

    God didn't tell us to save the world by voting for perfect leaders ... because they don't exist. He also didn't tell us to spread slanderous statements about people we don't agree with. Or to live in fear of the unknown. He said to love the world, love your enemies, and pray without end.

    Sin falls on both ends of the political spectrum, so vote how ever you feel led. Then take a deep breath and remember who is really in charge.
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    Katy is a smart voter. She knows what she wants, and she knows who will give it to her. I can respect that. Some of the rest of you people need to pull your head out of the sand.

    This notion that Obama will reduce abortions because he cares about all these other issues may feel good, but in my opinion, is abosolutly delusional.

    Now, lest you think I am just a lackey for the Republican party, I can tell you that I am very dissapointed with both parties, and with our entire two party system. In my opinion our goverment has grown into a giant buerocratic monster that feeds off the productivity of its citizens. Even the most well intensioned politician will quickly be absorbed into the system, and be rendered inefective for any purpose other than bringing home the "pork".

    In regards to our two choices for president today, I dont have any reason to expect a change of moral climate in our country regardless of the outcome Nov. 4. What I do expect if Obama wins, is he will imediatly sign the Freedom of choice act (because he said so), wich would abolish every existing state and federal limitation on abortion, including parental consent and notification laws for minors.
    I also believe he will push for and promote any legislation requiring Planed Parenthood type sex education in ALL schools, public or private. So, if you want your child's fifth grade teacher to teach them the proper methods for condom use, I would say Obama is your man. If you want your childs high school counseler to sneak them out of school for an abortion without your knowledge, then I would say Obama is your man. And of course, you wont mind if your tax dollars pay for it.

    There were other issues raised that we should also be concered about,like the down trodden, widows and orphans, and I say absolutly. I am very interested in those issues, and I have, and will continue to apply my efforts and resourses when able, as I am sure all of us will. If I thought there was any way to legislate those issues, that would be a heavy weight on deciding who to vote for. However, I am confident that if I ask or allow goverment to deal with those issues they will do what they always have done. Take one dollar from me, apply eighteen cents toward the issue, and burn the rest in their bottomless pit of buerocracy. Sorry for being so cynical, but watching the news will do that to a person. I dont see any way those issues can be effectively dealt with other than you and I working in community to help the people we come in contact with. Now, mabee I am wrong, and mabee there is some needed balance between a legislative approach, and the individual aproach. I guess thats what we have now. I am just reluctant to give government any more than they already have. I believe that we can do more on our own, given the opportunity. Although, they did a real nice job in New Orleans. Sorry, cynical again.

    I think it was Paul who said he didnt believe McCain could do anything to resolve the abortion issue. I am sorry to say I agree 100%. However, in my opinion, a McCain administration is likly to at least hold the line where it is now. You might say it will give me a place to dig my nails into the wall. I am convinced that an Obama adminstration will send us down a hole from wich we will never return. Not only on abortion, but his positions on gay rights and hate crimes give me great cause for concern. Now, mabee I am wrong again, and from the look of the polls, I hope and pray that I am.
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    "Justin - I wish my blog readers were as cool as yours"

    Paul is right we are not as cool but we are better looking!

    John
 
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